Title: Rob Liu — How to Start a Startup
Session context
- Host: Lisa (According to Cloud)
- Speaker: Rob Liu (Founder, Athena VC; Co-founder, ContactOut; ex-Groupon)
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/robliu/
- Topic: Crash course on starting a startup by “stealing” ideas, learning fast, and validating through customers
- Company metrics shared: ContactOut ~60 people, ~$14M revenue, ~$10M profit
Core thesis
- Good artists copy, great artists steal: Study winning companies and industries, extract what works, recombine into a 10x better solution.
- Learn fast, test fast, and iterate relentlessly; prioritize inputs you control (learning, interviews, outreach) over vanity outputs.
How to find ideas and pick markets
| Step | What to do | Why it matters | Tools/resources |
|---|
| 1 | Survey investor-backed spaces (YC batches, Crunchbase, Signal) | See what top investors believe is the future | YC directory, Crunchbase, Signal |
| 2 | Look beyond obvious SaaS (energy, ag, healthcare, finance, marketplaces) | Biggest markets aren’t always software | IBISWorld, Gates Foundation initiatives |
| 3 | Benchmark winners (top YC cos: marketplaces/FinTech dominate) | Counterintuitive: giant categories can be easier to win | YC Top Companies |
| 4 | Prefer enormous markets | Easier to hit meaningful outcomes with small share | “Big idea > small idea” logic |
| 5 | Learn at high velocity | Outlearn competitors to spot unique insights | ChatGPT, textbooks, papers, podcasts |
Learning workflow Rob uses
| Activity | Tactic | Notes |
|---|
| Map problems | Ask GPT: “biggest problems in X industry?” | Use it to branch to sub-problems |
| Scan solutions | “Which startups tackle these?” | Build a landscape |
| Read research | “Papers addressing Y” | Hunt pre-commercializable ideas |
| Go deep | Pull MIT/Stanford textbook lists; audio-TTS on walks | 1 hour/day at 3x = ~2 books/week |
| Close gaps | Screenshot confusing bits → ask GPT for explanations | Treat GPT as tutor |
Competitive teardown process
| Area | What to do | Example outputs |
|---|
| Product UX | Click through 10+ competitors; screen-by-screen strengths/weaknesses | Build your merged UX |
| Sales | Book their demos; record calls; capture pitch decks and sequences | Build a best-of sales flow |
| Marketing | Spy on SEO keywords, ad libraries, referral mechanics, social | Replicate and adapt (e.g., “James Clear email” SEO pages) |
| Inside info | DM ex-founders/ex-employees for mentoring (offer $500) | Learn data sourcing, sales playbooks (e.g., ZoomInfo address book strategy) |
| Advisory | Use intro.co to book unicorn founders | High ROI insights quickly |
Customer discovery and validation
| Goal | Tactics | Targets/Signals |
|---|
| Understand workflows | 100+ interviews; map jobs, pains, current tools, gaps | “What would you pay $50k for next month?” |
| Validate demand | Presell, paid pilots, LOIs | Cash or clear willingness to pay |
| Build smallest thing | Start with the highest-ROI feature only | ContactOut started with email lookup |
| Manual first | Do it by hand behind an API if needed | Learn before automating |
| Iterate fast | 10–100 tests across product/sales/marketing | Learn every week (LIFT: Learnings, Ideas, Fast Tests) |
Growth channels and playbooks mentioned
| Channel | How to try fast | Notes |
|---|
| SEO | Copy proven intent pages from competitors | ContactOut: ~2M visitors/mo via SEO |
| Outbound | SDR motions, cold email, LinkedIn | Test targeting hypotheses quickly |
| Ads | $5–$100 experiments to find ICPs | Let CPC/conv data guide |
| Referrals/partners | Copy competitor referral designs; sign ecosystem partners | Leverage existing CRMs/platforms |
| Content/social | Mirror competitors’ channels (TikTok/YouTube/etc.) | Learn what resonates in niche |
Sales philosophy
| Topic | Guidance |
|---|
| Tools | Don’t over-tool early; focus on “one most important thing” daily |
| Closing | No magic lines; great product wins. Process helps, but value wins. |
| Learn by osmosis | Book competitors’ demos, record and study |
| Word of mouth | Ultimate growth; driven by superior product |
Pivoting and perseverance
| Topic | Take | Practical approach |
|---|
| When to pivot | Only you know; iterate based on weekly learnings | Run small tests; update hypotheses weekly |
| Time horizon | Think 10 years; many flail for 3–4 before lift-off | Don’t quit early |
| Fundraising | Take as little as needed; optimize for founder liquidity | Revenue > investment “problem” |
| Competition | A YC competitor is not a deterrent | Be 10x better for average user |
Hiring, management, productivity
| Area | Practice | Detail |
|---|
| Hiring questions | Most impressive accomplishments; books read last year; role-specific build question | Assess thinking via writing |
| Meetings | Stack on Mondays; mostly group sessions | Asynchronous written updates |
| Focus | One most important task/day; track productive hours | Use a stopwatch method |
| Learning | Read constantly; leverage audio + GPT | Make learning part of lifestyle |
Selected Q&A takeaways
| Question | Answer summary |
|---|
| Tools for PM? | Keep it simple (notes/stickies). Don’t overcook tooling early. |
| Closing fence-sitters? | Product superiority + clear problem solving > tricks. |
| Sharing ideas publicly? | Share freely; ideas cheap, execution hard; public builds audience. |
| IP concerns (toys) | Revenue first; defend later via brand/acquisition. Patents secondary early. |
| AUS vs US (hardware/software) | Sell to US early, leverage Asia supply chains; Aussies have US cultural advantage. |
| Vision vs MVP | Show both: the big vision and today’s proof. Revenue traction attracts investors. |
| Freemium vs paid | Try both; measure conversion/engagement; parallel small bets. |
8-week execution tracker (Notion/Markdown-ready)
| Week | One Most Important Thing | Customer (interviews/demos) | Product (milestone/tests) | Growth (SEO/outbound/ads) | Sales (demos/pilots) | Learning (papers/books) | Result/Learning |
|---|
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Milestone template
| Area | Baseline | Target (8 weeks) | Success criteria |
|---|
| Customer discovery | X interviews/week | Y total; Z decision-makers | Clear top-3 pains; pricing signals |
| Product | — | MVP live to N users | ≥B% activation; time-to-value ≤ T |
| Revenue | $0 or $MRR | 1–3 paid pilots or $A MRR | 10% WoW post-first dollar |
| Growth | 0 | SEO pages P; outbound Q/wk; ads test R | ≥ S signups/wk or cost/conv threshold |
Action items for you
- Pick 1–2 markets from YC/IBISWorld; list 10 competitors each.
- Book 5 competitor demos; record and capture collateral.
- Schedule 15 customer interviews this week; use 3 core questions about pains, current tools, and willingness to pay.
- Build the smallest valuable slice; ship within 2–4 weeks.
- Run 3 growth tests next week: 1 SEO page cluster, 1 outbound sequence, 1 micro-ad test.
- Track in the 8-week table; update learnings weekly.